When Productivity Becomes Pathological
These days, psychiatrist Judith Joseph knows joy. It’s the feeling she has after eating a delicious meal, celebrating the completion of a successful study in her lab, or watching her…
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What happens when life doesn’t go according to plan? In this award-winning podcast, cognitive scientist Dr. Maya Shankar explores how we experience change and strategies we can use to better navigate moments of upheaval.
Maya’s life took a dramatic turn when an injury ended her career as a violinist and inspired her to study the science of change.
Named Apple Podcasts’ Best Show of the Year, A Slight Change of Plans features deeply personal stories and scientific insights about who we are and who we become in the face of a big change.
Past guests include Kacey Musgraves, Brené Brown, Ruby Bridges, Amanda Knox, Adam Grant, Angela Duckworth and more.
Whether it’s a sudden pivot or a slow transformation, each episode reveals how change can give us an opportunity to reimagine who we are and unlock greater possibility.
Follow @DrMayaShankar on Instagram.
Most Recent Episode
When Productivity Becomes Pathological
These days, psychiatrist Judith Joseph knows joy. It’s the feeling she has after eating a delicious meal, celebrating the completion of a successful study in her lab, or watching her…
Sahil Bloom: Building A (Truly) Happy Life
Sahil Bloom spent years working in the financial industry, putting in long hours and cashing big paychecks. But even though he’d found career success, he started to question whether the…
One Trauma, Two Different Paths
Tommy Caldwell’s experience being held captive in Kyrgyzstan unlocks a new state of mind that propels him to become the greatest big wall climber of all time. This conversation first…
A Climber Loses Her Grip
As a professional rock climber, Beth Rodden was taught to see pain as weakness. Fear and discomfort—mental and physical—were just things to be tolerated along the path to one record-breaking…
BONUS: Boost Your Resilience At Work
What can we do to cultivate more resilience at work? Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business and host of The Unshakeables podcast, thinks about this question a lot. In today’s mini…
Glennon Doyle on How to Be Broken
For as long as writer Glennon Doyle can remember, she’s felt that something inside her was broken. 'Who am I really? What am I meant to do? And why does…
The Two Words That Saved Mel Robbins
If you've ever found yourself bending over backwards to meet other people’s expectations, or trying to control your loved ones’ emotions and behaviors, you are not alone. Bestselling author and…
Is Amanda Knox Finally Free?
Amanda Knox has spent a decade trying to move on after being wrongfully convicted of murder. But over the years, one question lingered - why had the lead prosecutor in…
Amanda Knox Knows What You’re Thinking
Amanda Knox was just 20 years old when she was found guilty of a crime she did not commit — the murder of her roommate. Amanda spent four years in…
Extreme makeover: personality edition
Science writer Olga Khazan didn’t really like herself. A self-described neurotic, she tended to fixate on the negative. She assumed she’d always be this way, but then she came across…
How to Say No
Have you ever found yourself saying yes to something you really didn’t want to do? Psychologist Sunita Sah is an expert on why it can be so difficult to say…
The case against ‘feeling your feelings’
Psychologist Ethan Kross wants us to stop thinking about our emotions as either good or bad. Emotions carry valuable information, he says, and they are signals that can help us…
The Secret to a Good Conversation
Charles Duhigg is a journalist who is interested in what makes for a good conversation. He talks to Maya about some science-backed techniques we can try to improve our conversational…
Breaking Free From Family Beliefs
Writer Safiya Sinclair grew up on the north coast of Jamaica in a Rastafari family. Her father was the head of the household and he made Safiya and her siblings…
What We Get Wrong About The Teen Brain
We have a lot of misconceptions about young people and their developing brains, says psychologist David Yeager. It’s true that young people’s brains are underdeveloped, but that’s not the only factor…
Rethinking Ambition
For many years, writer Jennifer Romolini prided herself on her work ethic. She climbed to the top of every corporate ladder and worked 60 hours or more every week. But…
The Story of a Smile
Soon after giving birth, writer Sarah Ruhl developed a severe case of facial paralysis. The left side of her face drooped, she couldn’t blink or raise her eyebrows, and she…
Cynicism is Exhausting. There’s an Alternative.
Psychologist Jamil Zaki studies the science of human connection and he believes cynicism is holding us back. Cynicism isn't just harmful for our health, he says, it’s also misguided. He…
Part 2: A Million Little Losses
Just a few days after Kelsie first talked with Maya for the podcast, Kelsie's husband, Chris, was rushed to the hospital after he didn’t wake up from a nap. He…
Part 1: A Million Little Losses
When Kelsie first met her co-worker Chris, she fell hard. They soon fell in love, got married, and had two kids. But then, Chris received a devastating diagnosis. In conversation…
A Novel Approach to Treating Chronic Pain
A lot of chronic pain isn't actually caused by structural issues with the body, says psychotherapist Alan Gordon. Instead, it's often the brain misinterpreting safe bodily signals as dangerous. Alan…
Real Talk: The Transition to Motherhood
Motherhood can be a time of profound internal upheaval, says clinical psychologist Molly Millwood. Molly offers an honest look at the transition into motherhood, drawing from scientific research, stories from…
A Syrian Refugee Fights for Olympic Dreams
Swimmer Yusra Mardini grew up in Syria and dreamed of one day representing her home country at the Olympics. But when the civil war in Syria intensified, she fled the country…
“Surrender is not in my DNA”
Brad Snyder was part of the U.S. Navy’s most elite bomb squad. In his role, he was rewarded for his intense independence. But after a bomb blast left him blind,…
What Comes After Gold, With Olympian Missy Franklin
Swimmer Missy Franklin won four gold medals at her first Olympics. But as she trained for her second trip to the world stage, her mental health began to crumble. With…
Brené Brown on Our Flawed, Imperfect Selves
Brené Brown is a bestselling author and social scientist known for her work on complex emotions like shame and vulnerability. She opens up to Maya about the evolution of some…
Part 2: Life, Interrupted with Suleika Jaouad
In part two of Maya’s conversation with writer Suleika Jaouad, they talk about Suleika's epic road trip following her cancer treatments and her friendship with a man who spent half…
Part 1: Life, Interrupted with Suleika Jaouad
Suleika Jaouad was diagnosed with an aggressive form of leukemia when she was 22 years old. In this special two-part conversation, she talks with Maya about why she sees survival…
A Game-Changing Strategy for Better Relationships
Dr. Becky Kennedy is a clinical psychologist known for her popular parenting advice. She talks with Maya about how shifting to a mindset that children are “good inside” can improve…
What Children Can Teach Us About Creativity
Alison Gopnik is a developmental psychologist who studies childrens' brains. She talks with Maya about how kids' exploratory approach to problem-solving can show us how to better tap into our…
Freedom After a Lifetime of Secrets
Shortly after Laura Cathcart Robbins had her second child, she developed a crippling anxiety disorder and severe insomnia. Within a few years, she was addicted to sleeping pills. Laura was…
The Science of Happiness with Dr. Laurie Santos
We're not great at knowing what makes us happy, says Laurie Santos, host of "The Happiness Lab." Laurie joins Maya for a wide-ranging conversation about the latest happiness research and…
How to Make Your Habits Stick
Our daily habits are the key to reaching our long-term goals, argues writer James Clear. His bestselling book, "Atomic Habits," distills the most compelling research on how to break bad…
Adam Grant Helps Unlock Our Hidden Potential
Psychologist Adam Grant stops by to talk with Maya about his new book "Hidden Potential: The Science of Achieving Greater Things." They talk about how to filter out unhelpful feedback, the benefits…
“I Gave Up Asking ‘Why Me?'”
When Banafsheh Rashidi gave birth to her daughter, Saba, she immediately conjured up vivid images of Saba's future: passing the driver's test, graduation, and maybe even a wedding. But when…
Get Happier with Gretchen Rubin
Gretchen Rubin is an author and podcaster with a passion for helping people become happier. One of the biggest lessons she's learned in her decades-long study of the subject is…
Your Future Self Needs Your Help Today
Hal Hershfield is a psychologist who studies the emotional connection we have to our “future selves." He talks with Maya about tactics we can use to strengthen this connection, and…
The Coin Toss
Sonia Vallabh had just lost her mother to a rapid, mysterious brain disease. And then, she found out that the disease was genetic. Doctors told her there was a 50-50 chance…
Awe and Psychedelics with Michael Pollan
For an extra dose of awe, we're revisiting our conversation with author Michael Pollan. He chats with Maya about the fascinating science of psychedelics and how plants have the power…
Why Experiencing Awe With Others Feels So Magical
Dr. Shira Gabriel is a psychologist who studies the science of human connection. In recent years she’s turned her attention to collective effervescence, a feeling we get when we experience something transcendent with…
A Different Kind of Identity Theft
When world-renowned musician Min Kym first picked up a violin, she knew immediately that it would define her. And it did…until one day, in a London train station, everything changed.
How Awe Transforms Us
Psychologist Dacher Keltner shares the science behind the mysterious, powerful emotion of awe. He and Maya discuss where we can find awe in our everyday lives, including one common but surprising…
The Power of Imaginative Courage, our “Why”, and Awe
Maya was honored to deliver a commencement address at the Juilliard School earlier this year. As an alumna of the school’s pre-college division, Maya shared three pieces of wisdom with…
A Neuroscientist’s Curious Approach to Dying
At age 59, neuroscientist David Linden received a startling diagnosis of heart cancer. Even in the face of a terminal illness, David is continuing to think like a scientist. He…
For the Love of Pizza
Long before Scott Wiener was the founder of a popular pizza tour company, he was just a guy who really loved to eat pizza. He talks with Maya about how…
The Science of Self-Compassion
Self-compassion isn't selfish, says psychologist Kristin Neff, a pioneer in research on the topic. Kristin busts cultural myths about self-compassion, such as the idea that it makes us lazy or…
A Meditation Scientist Changes My Mind
After a life-changing experience in India, Dr. Richie Davidson tried to convince his Harvard professors to let him study the science of meditation. No one took him seriously. Half a…
“I Will Never Leave You”
Lucy Kalanithi is a doctor, a mom, and the widow of Dr. Paul Kalanithi, author of the bestselling memoir, “When Breath Becomes Air.” Lucy was at Paul's side through his…
Let’s Agree to Disagree More
World champion debater Bo Seo knows how to win an argument. He’s made it his mission to teach everyone to disagree better. Bo walks us through how to apply the…
The Science of Making (and Keeping) Friends
It's a mistake to prioritize romantic and familial relationships over friendship, argues psychologist Dr. Marisa Franco. Strong, supportive friendships expand our sense of self, she says, and are associated with…
The Devastation of Things Going Exactly to Plan
Writer Kelly Corrigan always wanted a family. She craved the closeness and familiarity of a strong parent-child relationship. When her daughters were little, she relished knowing everything about their lives.…
How to Build Empathy and Avoid Burnout
For a long time, scientists believed our capacity for empathy remains more or less fixed throughout our lives. But research by Jamil Zaki, a psychology professor at Stanford, shows that…
A Science Journalist Tries to Hack Heartbreak
Science writer Florence Williams felt blindsided when her twenty-five-year marriage unexpectedly fell apart. The heartbreak opened her up to a whole range of new and intense feelings, but it also…
You Have More Influence Than You Think
Influence is often seen as a skill we have to cultivate, a charismatic quality leveraged by select leaders, business people, and successful social media accounts. But in her new book,…
Hasan Minhaj is Trying Not to Care If You Like Him
Lately, comedian Hasan Minhaj is taking a second look at his motives for performing. Hasan was initially drawn to comedy because it allowed him to hold people in power accountable.…
The Upside of Stress
We’re all familiar with the ways that stress can make us feel bad. But professor and stress expert Modupe Akinola argues that a simple change in our mindset can turn…
“I Survived the Unsurvivable”
At age nine, Javier Zamora embarked on a harrowing, 3000-mile immigration journey from El Salvador to the United States. More than twenty years later, he’s finally ready to revisit that…
The Science of Loneliness
U.S. Surgeon General Vivek Murthy is an expert on the science of loneliness. He offers advice for how we can build stronger, more meaningful social connections. For a transcript of this…
When Surviving Is Enough
After Nora McInerny’s husband died of cancer in his thirties, Nora became well known for writing about the messiness of grief. She also led grief groups, launched a podcast about…
Our Revisionist (Personal) Histories ft. Jason Isbell
Jason Isbell is a singer-songwriter and four-time Grammy winner. After wrestling with addiction, he re-examines aspects of his personality that he once saw as his greatest weaknesses. For a transcript…
The Art and Science of Gathering
Priya Parker is an expert in group dialogue and conflict resolution, and she uses her unique background to rethink how we come together. Priya teaches us how to turn our…
A First Responder’s Call for Help
As a firefighter, Christy Warren made rescuing people her life's work. Her toughness earned her praise from her peers. But after decades of rescuing others, suddenly Christy became the one…
The Science of Regret
Author Daniel Pink teaches us how to transform our relationship with regret so that we can live happier, more fulfilling lives.
A 6-Year-Old Changes History
Civil rights icon Ruby Bridges is our guest today. She shares what it was like to be the first African-American student to attend an all-white elementary school in Louisiana in…
A Theranos Whistleblower
Erika Cheung’s first job out of college was as a scientist at the now infamous biotech company, Theranos. Erika realized early on that the company’s proprietary technology was not delivering…
The Science of Motivation
Dr. Ayelet Fishbach is a professor of psychology, and an expert on the science of motivation. She'll teach us how to set smarter goals, and give us science-based strategies to…
A Holocaust Survivor’s Story
Edith Eger was just 16 years old when the Nazis forced her and her Jewish family onto a cattle car to the Auschwitz concentration camp. Today, Edith is 94 years…
Who Is Scott Menke?
Scott Menke never thought he had a particularly compelling personality, but he did feel he stood out in at least one way: he had a natural ability to learn and…
The Science of Our Inner Voice
Psychology professor Ethan Kross is an expert on the science of introspection, and the role our inner voice plays in shaping our sense of well-being. While our inner voice has…
A Test of Faith
Kate Bowler is a religious scholar whose entire belief system was thrown into question when she was diagnosed with Stage IV cancer at age 35. For a transcript of this…
I Don’t Feel Like a Boy, I Am a Boy
Jodie Patterson’s son came out as transgender when he was just shy of three years old. Jodie knew her son would face many changes ahead, but what she didn’t anticipate…
The Thai Cave Rescue
Dr. Richard "Harry" Harris is an anesthesiologist and expert cave diver who was tasked with a seemingly impossible mission: to rescue a boys' soccer team trapped 2.5 miles deep within…
Lessons From a Grief Therapist
Julia Samuel is one of the world’s leading grief therapists. She joins Maya to talk about why it’s important to engage with our grief, and offers strategies for how to…
Losing Dixie
Quinn Lewis’ sister Dixie was 19 years old when she tragically died in a car accident. In the months that followed Dixie’s death, Quinn was left to grieve the loss…
The Science of Connection
Dr. Dixon Chibanda, a psychiatrist in Zimbabwe, has been on a mission for years to help people gain access to mental healthcare in his community, where there’s only one psychiatrist…
Captured in North Korea
Korean-American journalist Euna Lee was captured by North Korean soldiers in 2009, and forced into captivity for 140 days. While Euna’s time in North Korea was harrowing, there was one…
How Psychedelics Can Change Our Minds
Author Michael Pollan chats with Maya about the science of psychedelics — what’s going on in our brains that give rise to the extraordinary experiences people describe. Michael also gives…
Life After Surviving Stage-Four Cancer
When we first talked to Scott (“The Life-Changing Diagnosis”), he was in the midst of treatment for stage four bone cancer at MD Anderson Cancer Center in Texas. Since then,…
A Blind Cook Becomes a Master Chef
Christine Ha fell in love with cooking in college when she tried to recreate the Vietnamese dishes her mother had cooked for her as a child. But when a rare…
A Mother’s Fight for the Truth
Shapearl Wells’ son Courtney Copeland was fatally shot in 2016. He was 22 years old. Shapearl wanted answers to what had happened to her son in his final moments, but…
Face to Face with the Enemy
In an effort to bring an end to violence in northern Uganda in 1993, Betty Bigombe decides to engage directly with the notorious warlord, Joseph Kony. Today we hear about…
Amanda Knox Wants Us to Move On
Amanda Knox was just 20 years old when she was found guilty of a crime she did not commit — the murder of her roommate. Amanda spent four years in…
The Science of Grit
What makes a ballerina, a world-class chef, or a civic activist great? Psychologist Angela Duckworth says the answer is GRIT — a power combo of passion and perseverance. Angela teaches…
BONUS: Olympian Gabby Thomas Sets Her Own Pace
Gabby Thomas became the second-fastest woman ever when she ran the 200m in 21.61 seconds at the 2021 US Olympic Team Trials. She then won two medals at the Tokyo…
Wired for Change
John Elder Robison is a gifted sound engineer whose rare ability to understand machines propelled him to work with the likes of Kiss and Diana Ross. But the one thing…
The Science of Quitting
Annie Duke believes we should be quitting things more often, a skill she honed during her lucrative years as a professional poker player on the world stage. Annie talks about…
Riz Ahmed Plays Himself
Oscar-Nominated actor Riz Ahmed shares how the roles he’s played have changed not only how he sees the world, but also how he sees himself.For a transcript of this episode,…
Maya’s Slight Change of Plans
Host Maya Shankar recently experienced a heartbreaking change in her personal life. Two days after it happened, she felt the need to process it out loud, like so many of…
Opening Pandora’s Box
Susan Messing and Michael McCarthy were a beloved couple in the Chicago comedy scene. Michael passed away from cancer in 2020. As part of Susan’s grieving process, she began to…
BONUS: The Science of Happiness and Change
New episodes of A Slight Change of Plans coming every Monday starting October 11th!Maya joins Dr. Laurie Santos (host of The Happiness Lab) to talk about how we can reframe…
Kacey Musgraves on Psychedelics
Singer-songwriter Kacey Musgraves has never been willing to change herself or her music for anyone else. But a recent psychedelic trip allowed her to change on her own terms and…
Getting My Silence Back
When Ramsey Khabbaz was 20 years old, he woke up to the sound of a blaring fire alarm. It took him a moment to realize that the sound was originating…
I’m Not as Free as I Thought
Morgan Givens was initially filled with joy when he came out as transgender and began hormone therapy. But his joy was soon pierced when he confronted the reality of being…
The Life-Changing Diagnosis
Scott, a young researcher who builds cancer detection tools, has spent his entire adult life trying to avoid getting cancer. He is now facing his own stage 4 diagnosis.
I Lost Weight and So Much More
From the time she was a little girl, Elna Baker had dreamed of being thin. And she did become thin. She lost close to 100 pounds in five months. For…
Adam Grant Thinks Again
Psychologist and author Adam Grant talks with Maya about the science of changing peoples’ minds, including our own. Adam also takes some of his own advice and rethinks some of…
Leaving a Religious Cult
Megan Phelps-Roper was born into the Westboro Baptist Church, a religious cult called the most rabid hate groups in America. Megan was a true believer and one of the Church’s…
Tommy Caldwell Finds Clarity
Tommy Caldwell’s near-death experience unlocks a completely new state of mind that propels him to become the greatest big wall climber of all time.
The Science of Change
Maya chats with her friend and fellow cognitive scientist Dr. Katy Milkman about science-based strategies to help you inspire change in your own life.
Hillary Clinton Changes on Her Own Terms
People have been asking Hillary to change ever since the 1970s, when she defied the stereotype of First Lady of Arkansas. And she was willing to change...just never in the…
Tiffany Haddish Discovers Her Superpower
After her mom’s car accident throws Tiffany Haddish’s childhood into chaos, a social worker gives her an ultimatum that changes her life.
A Black Musician Takes on the KKK
When a Black jazz musician meets a Klansman at a bar, his life takes a sudden turn. He ends up inspiring hundreds of people to leave white supremacist groups.
Preview: Maya Asks Michael Lewis to Be Her Friend
A sneak peak of what’s to come this season on A Slight Change of Plans with Dr. Maya Shankar, in conversation with her good friend and fellow podcast host Michael…
Introducing A Slight Change of Plans
Dr. Maya Shankar is a cognitive scientist who studies how our minds work and how we change. There are few things in life that are as complex and messy—and potentially…
The Host
Dr. Maya Shankar
Maya Shankar is a cognitive scientist who served as a Senior Advisor in the Obama White House, where she founded and served as Chair of the White House Behavioral Science…
